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Date Aired
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June 23, 2024
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Running Time
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35:37
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Intro[]
Todd is leaning his elbow on the piano
Todd: [sighs] Leave Justin alone?
Clip of Justin Timberlake performing "My Love"
Justin Timberlake: Ain't another woman that can take your spot, my
Todd (VO): Boy, not the right time to be sticking up for Justin Timberlake, huh? [clip of USA Today story about Justin's DUI] Yeah, while I was recording this episode, that idiot got a DUI right as I was gonna try and defend him, which... Thanks a lot, fuckhead.
Todd: Honestly, it wasn't much of a defense anyway. I just don't think it's some humongous outrage that he had a career like a lot of people seem to feel.
Clip of a comedian talking about Justin
Comedian: I hate Justin Timberlake, and I'm not afraid to ruin a party over it, okay? He's not good, he's not good! He built his career on appropriating black culture and on the backs of two pop icons and national treasures. Say it with me, Britney Spears and Janet Jackson!
Todd (VO): I mean yeah, we all know...
Todd: ...what the backlash comes from; the Britney thing, the Janet thing.
Clip of USA Today story about Britney Spears' memoir
Todd (VO): Yes, I've heard what Britney has said about him. None of it makes him looks good, and he's said plenty about her so she's perfectly within her rights to fire back.
Todd: But I, pft... I-I just cannot care...
Clip of Justin and Britney at the 2001 AMAs
Todd (VO): ...about a messy breakup between 19-year-olds twenty years ago. Didn't care then, don't care now. I think this would be old drama for everyone else too, except it's just gotten conflated with all the other [clip from Britney vs Spears trailer] bad things that happened to Britney. [clip of ET story about the Janet Jackson half-time show incident] Just like Justin is taking the heat for Janet's career ending. Like yes, I get that he didn't stand up for her, but we were not all sitting around waiting for Justin Timberlake to take a bullet for Janet, or like, fall on his sword. We weren't waiting to see what Justin would say.
Clip of WSJ Live interview with Les Moonves, with headline "Report: Les Moonves Harbored a Years-Long Grudge Against Janet Jackson" superimposed on the lower third
Like, Janet's career was ended by a vengeful media mogul, [clip from Britney vs Spears trailer] Britney was put into an abusive conservatorship by her father. And I just feel like it's more satisfying to displace [brief clip of Justin Timberlake - "Cry Me a River"] that anger onto the most famous person in the story. [montage clips of TMZ story about Britney's conservatorship; interview with Les; a Perez Hilton video; ET story about the half-time show incident; a paparazzi video of Britney] rather than Jamie Spears, or Les Moonves, or Perez Hilton, or a million conservative, uptight Super Bowl viewers, or the entire culture being weird about Britney Spears.
Todd: [exhales, then throws hands up] Like I said, it's not a humongous defense to say he's only a minor villain rather than the main villain.
Clip of Justin Timberlake - "What Goes Around... Comes Around"
Todd (VO): Like, I'm not trying to die on the hill of Justin Timberlake, I'm not saying he's owed forgiveness or that people need to like him again. I- I don't believe that.
Todd: And also, Justin has made himself hard to root for for other reasons also.
Clip of Nightline story about Britney Spears' memoir
Todd (VO): One of the other major revelations from Britney Spears' memoir is that Justin Timberlake is fucking lame.
Clip of Michelle Williams with audio of her reading "The Woman in Me"
Michelle: J got all excited and said out loud, "Oh yeah! Fo shiz, fo shiz, Ginuwine, wassup homie?"
This one I would find it harder to defend him from, which...
Todd: Hold on, shouldn't that be the easy argument?
Clip of Justin Timberlake - "SexyBack"
Justin: I'm bringing sexy back
Todd (VO): Justin Timberlake was widely considered to be one of the coolest men alive for a decade or more. He said that he brought sexy back, and we all- we all just let him say it!
Todd: We all agreed that that was a reasonable thing for him to say!
Clip of Justin performing "Summer Love"
Justin: I know how to do it insane, girl
Cause I can make it hot, make it stop
Crowd: Make you wanna say my name, girl
Todd (VO): In 2008, it seemed clear [clip of "What Goes Around... Comes Around"] that he would be a generational pop star. One of the defining artists of our time.
Todd: And if he had still been that effortlessly cool ten years later, he'd be fine.
Behind the scenes clip Man of the Woods recording
Todd (VO): In 2018, the backlash was really starting to brew. But many artists careers have survived much worse scandals, usually because they were still putting out good music that was selling. [clip of Justin Timberlake - "Rock Your Body"] My opinion is that the Justin backlash would be only some grumbling from stans if he had kept making bangers the level of what he was making in the 2000s.
Todd: What he actually released... was this.
Clip of Justin Timberlake - "Man of the Woods"
Justin: I brag about you to anyone outside
But I'm a man of the woods, it's my pride
Todd (VO): In 2018, Justin Timberlake dropped his fifth album Man of the Woods. And it is probably in the top 3 defining flops that happened during my career, maybe even top 2. [clip of Katy Perry - "Chained to the Rhythm"] In a world where Katy Perry's Witness didn't exist, we would call flop eras "Man of the Woods eras".
Clip of Justin performing "Supplies"
Justin: Cause I got suppli-i-ies
To this day, it remains a bafflingly misconceived project. It's not just that the music was bad, although a lot of it was. It was also just a... [clip of Man of the Woods Behind The Album] A-a bizarre attempt at re-branding himself into like, a- a southern Appalachian mountain man. He was talking this up a lot. There was a lot of beard, and plaid, and grass. [clip of Justin Timberlake ft. Chris Stapleton - "Say Something"] He was, like, working with country singers. [clip of "Man of the Woods"] It was... I don't even know what this was. At a time when Justin needed more than ever to be on his game, he chopped himself down at the knees.
Clip of Justin performing "Filthy"
Justin: Hey, if you know what's good
If you know what's good
Todd (VO): I know what's good. Do you know what's good, Justin? Do you?
Todd: Justin Timberlake shouts "Timber!" and goes down like a falling oak. This is Trainwreckords!
Trainwreckords intro, followed by the album cover for Man of the Woods
Come Back, Justin![]
Clip of viral "Justin Timberlake, Make Music Again" video
First Woman: 2006, it wasn't so long ago.
Second Woman: In case you've forgotten....
First Woman: ...Justin Timberlake released FutureSex/LoveSounds.
Second Woman: And that was the last time Justin Timberlake released an album.
First Woman: Every day without a new Justin Timberlake album...
Second Woman: ...feels like an eternity.
Third Woman: Feels pointless.
Man: Hopeless.
Fourth Woman: Unsexy.
Todd (VO): You all fucking love Justin Timberlake! You adored him, every last one of you!
Todd: Alright, maybe not all of you, especially you fetuses that watch my videos. But I feel like people have forgotten how beloved he was.
Third Woman: I haven't had an orgasm in three years!
Fifth Woman: I don't know how to pleasure myself to Bruno Mars!
Todd (VO): This viral video begging Justin to bring "SexyBack" back is from 2011. And I think that's as good a place to start, cause that was probably the absolute peak of desire for Justin Timberlake.
Todd: When he hadn't made music in five years.
Clip of T.I. ft. Justin Timberlake - "Dead and Gone
Todd (VO): Absence makes the heart grow fonder. And by that point, people were starving for JT. But Justin was focused on his [clip from Friends with Benefits] only intermittently successful acting career, so no album would come that year. Nor the next. [clip of Justin performing "Suit & Tie"] It wouldn't come until 2013. [screenshot of Pitchfork's review of The 20/20 Experience with an 8.4 Best New Music rating] And the response was rapturous.
Justin: I can't wait 'til I get you on the floor
Todd: At first.
Justin: Come on
Todd (VO): Whereas Justin's last album, [clip of Justin Timberlake - "My Love"] 2006's FutureSex/LoveSounds was a mainstay on radio for two years with three #1s, [clip of Justin Timberlake ft. Jay-Z - "Suit & Tie"] 2013's back-to-back twin album set The 20/20 Experience never quite hit those heights. [clip of Justin Timberlake - "Mirrors"] Only two songs, arguably only one song was a huge hit, none of them #1, the rest barely reaching middling chart level.
Todd: I think the long hiatus worked against him.
Clip of Justin Timberlake live performance
Todd (VO): It had built up anticipation, but then all of a sudden we realized we lived this long without Justin Timberlake, we could probably keep living without him. [clip of Justin Timberlake - "Take Back the Night"] But to me, the most damaging thing to the fandom wasn't any of those underperforming singles from that album.
Todd: It was the #1 hit that followed.
Clip of Justin Timberlake - "Can't Stop the Feeling!"
Justin: I got this feeling inside my bones
Todd (VO): This is "Can't Stop the Feeling!", his hit song from the animated movie Trolls, and it was... fine. Decent little bop, I didn't turn it off when it came on. But it was also a song from a kids movie, and it sounded like it. And with Justin only getting older, it seemed very obvious that Justin Timberlake wasn't cool anymore.
Todd: Now, no one stays as hot as they were when they were in their mid-twenties. But listeners weren't the only ones noticing Justin getting older.
Clip of NBC News interview with Justin
Todd (VO): I think he was feeling his age too; at this point he was a married man, he had a kid. And in fact, his son Silas directly inspired his new direction.
Clip of Beats 1 interview with Justin
Justin: What does... What does your son's name mean? And I literally just went on Google, like, "meaning of the name Silas". And it said "Of Latin origin, meaning 'Man of the woods'".
Zane Lowe: There it is.
Justin: And I was like, how serendipitous that my last name is Timberlake, like what does that mean?
Uh, I don't think that means anything, man. I- I think that's a coincidence. [image of...] Frank Ocean doesn't have to write sea shanties. [clip of Man of the Woods Behind The Album] But apparently Timberlake went nuts for this idea and for the next few months, even before we heard any new music, we were hearing about...
Todd: ...Justin Timberlake: [image of Justin wearing a burly jacket with horses and mountains in the background] "King of the wild frontier".
A Country Boy’s Life For Me[]
Promotional clip for Man of the Woods as The Mellomen's "The Ballad of Davy Crockett" plays
The Mellomen: Born on a mountain top in Tennessee
Greenest state in the land of the free
Raised in the woods so's he knew every tree
Various images of Justin in woodsy outfits
Todd (VO): Yeah, every new photo had him dressed like [image of...] the Brawny man, every promo looked like a North Face ad. [screenshot of Spin article "Justin Timberlake's Man of the Woods Listening Party Served Gourmet Ants and Grasshoppers"] At the listening party, he made everyone [image of the listening party menu with "ants" and "grasshoppers" underlined] eat bugs. You know, like the country-folk do.
Todd: He was talking about his country roots.
Clip of Man of the Woods Behind The Album
Justin: That sound that feels like heritage, that is me exercising my love for where I came from.
Todd (VO): I mean, it sounded ridiculous to me. As far as [footage of *NSYNC at a Ronald McDonald House event] I'm concerned, his roots were in Orlando, Florida.
Todd: But this is what we were being sold.
Promotional clip for Man of the Woods
Todd (VO): What we were all prepared for was the big country music turn that every aging star eventually does. Came a little early for Justin, but you know, it wasn't this big shock.
Todd: That's what we were prepared for. And this is what we got.
"Filthy"[]
Clip of Justin Timberlake - "Filthy"
Justin: Hey, if you know what's good
Todd (VO): Man of the wood... paneling. I guess. Uh, this seems literally the exact opposite from what we were promised. You know, an album from a man living in the country- [screenshot of the title card "Pan-Asian Deep Learning Conference, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, 2028"] It's not even the right country!
Todd: But honestly, I wasn't really looking forward to that anyway.
Todd (VO): Like, the name of the song, we were told, was "Filthy". And you know what, thank God, right?
Todd: I wasn't actually looking forward to [brief clip of Justin putting on a cowboy hat] square dance Justin.
Todd (VO): We wanna get dirty up in here.
Todd: That's what we want from Justin Timberlake, right?
Justin: I said, put your filthy hands all over me
You know this ain't the cleaaaaaaaan version
What you gonna do with all that meat?
Todd: [covers mouth with his hands]
Justin: Haters gon' say it's fake, so real
Todd (VO): Haters did not say it was fake. They said a lot of other things though, and there were a lot more haters than Justin realized.
Justin: I said, put your filthy hands all over me
This is my third video where I've had to talk about "Filthy" in depth. Um... Sometimes life just takes you weird places, you know? I was very harsh on it at the time. But I've been very harsh on many things, I regret some of them. So I appreciate the chance to see if my feelings on this one has changed at all.
Justin: What you gonna do with all that beast? [roar]
Todd: It should not surprise you to find out that they have not.
Justin: You know this ain't the cleaaaaaaaan version
Todd (VO): Okay, but it is though. It is the clean version, there are no dirty words in it. And if this was the dirty version, what would the other version sound like?
Todd: [singing] Yes, this is the cleaaaaaaaan version
Todd (VO): Like I said, I've had to talk about this a few times, but uh, I don't think I've mentioned how bad the video is. For some reason he gave up the Man of the Woods thing entirely and instead he's, like, fake Steve Jobs doing a product reveal. And that product is a hideous CGI robo-Justin. [clip of a keynote presented by...] Like, Steve Jobs did a lot of things, but he- uh, he didn't [text "The iSexy" appears on the screen] bring sexy back. So, I don't know why that's what you're emulating here. And th-his robot, you know, it's not even a cool robot. Even the audience doesn't look very impressed. What am I gonna do with that? What am I gonna do with a dancing robot, store it next to my Segway in the garage?
Todd: Also, the beat is awful.
Justin: Walk to me, uh, no questions, I want it
Todd (VO): Like, there's probably a separate video to be made tracking the downfall of [recording clip of...] Timbaland, who peaked more or less with Justin in the late 2000s [clip of Chris Cornell ft. Timbaland - "Part of Me"] and ended up making a whole lot of shit after.
Todd: Wanna see the last thing I saw from him?
Clip of The Zoo x Ape-In x BAYC - "ApeSh!t"
Ape-In: Find me in the club, holla at ya ape
You wanderin' the game, callin' out my name
You can find me in the B-A-Y-C shining
Todd (VO): I wish I were joking. [clip of "Filthy"] Like, this is obviously modeled on "SexyBack", which... I never liked that song, but it does kinda bulldoze over you, so you can't really object to it. Here, the beat kinda totters around like a seasick drunk, going "Wub-wub-wub" about six years after dubstep went out of style.
Todd: Justin, did you seriously think people were gonna like that?
Clip of Man of the Woods Behind The Album
Justin: [mimicking the beat] Like, when that sh*t drops, you ask- Like, everyone's face look like they wanna sh*t their pants.
Todd: Yeah, it'll make you... Wait, wait, they make you wanna shit your pants? Why would I want to sh- I guess that would be filthy.
Clip of "Filthy"
Todd (VO): But for all that Timbaland fails, the true failure has to go to Justin himself. It feels like he has lost touch with everything that made him cool. At no point in his career had he ever written anything this bad.
Justin: Put your filthy hands all over me
"Filthy hands" sounds like you're talking to a kid who blew his nose on his hands. Which...is bad on its own, it's also bad with all the food imagery.
Justin: What you gonna do with all that meat?
Cookin' up a meaaaaaaaaan serving
Todd (VO): I mean, seriously, [image of "Wash Hands Before Handling Food" sign] wash your filthy hands before you cook, I'm not eating that.
Justin: I guess I got my swagger back
Swagger back- No, you don't. You do not.
Todd: Your claim is contradicted by the evidence.
Clip of Man of the Woods Behind The Album
Todd (VO): "Filthy" debuted at a surprisingly low #9 and then plummeted off the cliff like Wile E. Coyote. But...it's 2018. By this point, everyone knows you drop two singles in advance to double your odds.
Todd: Timberlake knew this, he was ready. He was prepared. He had...supplies.
If At First You Don’t Succeed…[]
Clip of Justin Timberlake - "Supplies"
Todd (VO): [sighs when he sees who's credited for the video] "Director" Dave Meyers, that's already a bad sign. Enemy for life Dave Meyers.
Justin: Yeah, ain't no need of stopping, girl
Todd: Oh no.
The TVs in front of Justin show various social movements of the late 2010's
Todd (VO): Oh no!
Justin: Met you out on Broadway on the hottest night in town
Folks, Justin Timberlake has thoughts about the state of the world.
Justin: Cause I'll be the light when you can't see
Todd (VO): Take that, one-percenter. Now, this sure doesn't look very woodsy either, but he's going somewhere with this. And in fact, here we see the first hints of the conceit of the album. See, it's not just a clumsy transition towards middle age.
Todd: No, uh, this "Man of the Woods" shit is a reflection of current events.
Todd (VO): Why is he a man of the woods? Uh, cause it's 2018 and the world feels like it's collapsing for all of the reasons you see there.
Justin: Cause I got suppli-i-ies
But, if society does end, don't worry baby, he's prepared. He's got "suppl-aye-aye-ies!"
Justin: Some shit start to go down, I'll be the one with the level head
The world could end now, baby, we'll be living in The Walking Dead
Todd: That's right, by "Man of the Woods", he means [image of two people in gas masks] doomsday prepper.
Justin: I'll be the light when you can't see
I'll be the wood when you need heat
I'll be the generator, turn me on when you need electricity
Todd (VO): See, like, the tone of the song implies that he has drugs and money. But the actual lyrics are about, like, electricity and potable water.
Justin: I got suppli-i-ies
And ladies...
Todd: Can you resist a guy that's got a massive stockpile of [image of...] canned beans? Rawr.
Justin: The multiple times, stop, hit the set
Todd (VO): For the record, I do remember how crazy the Trump years were, we were all there. Uh, I don't know if this is a particularly worthy or appropriate response. Like, look at this shit. Me Too, Muslim Ban, Freddie Gray. [image of newspaper article about...] Freddie Gray was beaten to death in a police wagon! And Justin's out here with the same goofy expression he has [clip of...] when he's doing bits with Jimmy Fallon! And his message is...
Todd: "Well, I'm gonna be okay."
Todd (VO): [does an impression of Justin's processed tenor] "I got suppl-aye-aye-ies!" This should've been the cause of all the Justin backlash, and it would've been if anyone had bothered to notice.
Todd: And I'm sorry, we gotta talk about Pharrell here.
Todd (VO): Pharrell's hit rate hadn't become as disastrous as Timbaland's. [clip of Gwen Stefani - "Wind It Up"] But Pharrell and The Neptunes do have, like, a surprisingly large amount of total duds; this is one of them. I don't think this track works at all. Lots of artists had trouble adapting to the moody, downbeat backlash to the dance pop era; it- it's just not Justin's wheelhouse, arguably not Pharrell's either. I just don't think there's a way to make Justin Timberlake's swagger fit in a Halsey-Post Malone world. Honestly, it comes off as really insulting.
Kid: You're still asleep! [glitches] Wake up!
Fuuuuuuuuck you! Like, we will never know where he was going with this whole computer glitch thing because [briefly cuts to the end of "Filthy", where Justin glitches and disappears] after both songs bricked, this was dropped pretty quickly.
Todd: Well, that was what Justin dropped on us to start.
Clip of Justin performing at the 2018 iHeartRadio Music Festival
Todd (VO): The album proper dropped a week later. Now, I have heard a bit of, you know, counter backlash. You know, the album is better than its reputation or it's better than its singles at least. So let's see. [image of Man of the Woods tracklist] First, we start "Filthy".
Clip of "Filthy"
Justin: Hey
He starts to fast-forward through the video
Eugh... But on the album, it ends and then we get, like, 10 seconds of wildlife sounds.
Video for "Filthy" ends and cuts to a promotional clip as the outro of the song plays
Woman: Do you see me?
Todd (VO): Almost as if the album is saying...
Todd: Ok... [briefly cuts back to "Filthy"] Please forget that happened, we're gonna start over here.
Todd (VO): Mulligan.
Todd: Now we got the album proper, let's hear it.
FutureSex/NatureSounds[]
Clip of Justin performing "Midnight Summer Jam"
Justin: Let's dance y'all, come on! (It's just a midnight summer jam)
The air's so thin, but we don't give a damn
Todd (VO): "Midnight Summer Jam" is the first woodsy song on the album. In that it has what might be a fiddle in the background, and the lyrics about partying have a vaguely hoedown vibe.
Justin: In circles, on and on in do-si-do and then we sway
And a killer harmonica solo.
The harmonica solo plays
Todd: This is, I think rightfully considered one of the highlights.
Justin: Come out and rock
And we just hopin' the music don't stop until the next day
It's just a midnight summer jam
Todd (VO): I'd go to bat for it, and it kinda makes me think the album could work. Except for this part that he keeps repeating.
Justin: Y'all can't do better than this
Y'all can't do better than this
Y'all can't do better than this
Act like the south ain't the shit
Act like the south ain't the shit
Act like the south ain't the shit
Todd: [beat] Who are you talking to?
Justin: Act like the south ain't the shit
Act like the south ain't the shit
Todd (VO): Who are you clapping back at? [clip of Jermaine Dupri ft. Ludacris - "Welcome To Atlanta"] At this point, the south had been running music for years, it doesn't need defending. [back to "Midnight Summer Jam"] Especially from you, Justin Timberlake, you've been repping your country roots for all of two seconds.
Todd: Uh, I guess he does have country music roots, cause he sure picked up the whole...
Clip of Riley Green - "Different 'Round Here"
Todd (VO): ...being defensive over nothing thing that country music guys like to do.
Riley Green: We stand for the flag and if you don't like it, we don't care
Yeah, you fit right in, Justin.
Todd: The next track is called "Sauce".
Got Sauce?[]
Clip of Justin performing at the 2018 iHeartRadio Music Festival
Justin: Ooh, sauce!
Uh, you got all of it
Todd (VO): You know, barbeque sauce.. [singing] Wow-nah-nah-wow-wow-nah-nah-wow, wow, wow
Todd: Uh, what he actually means by "sauce" comes from a viral video from the year before which he plays before the song.
Audio clip of "Sauce", the original video also appears
Gino Russ: Juice, juice is temporary, you know. Anyone can obtain the juice or something. I mean, you could say that just cause you got a nice car or something, like, "Oh, man, he got the juice," you know, it's something that kind of comes and goes. But the sauce, the sauce is forever.
Justin: Ooh, sauce!
Clip of Justin performing at the 2018 iHeartRadio Music Festival
Todd (VO): Some people are only cool temporarily, you say? Ooh boy, I hope that observation doesn't haunt this album. [clip of Lizzo - "Juice"] Also, it's funny that "Sauce" has pathetic numbers on streaming, versus "Juice" which took off the next year.
Justin: I love your pink, you love my purple
Repulsive. You took five years to make this!?
Todd: Okay hold on, why does Justin take forever to make music? Why is he seemingly so resistant to get back to singing.
Clip from Trolls
Branch (Justin): Cause singing killed my grandma, okay?
Todd: Ha-ha-ha. No, but he has a reason. [image of Playboy interview with Justin] Back when he was being begged to come back, he explained the delay, which... He doesn't like touring. [screenshot of a quote from Justin about touring] It's exhausting, it takes a lot of energy, it's just really hard. Especially if you don't have the songs for it. Honestly, that's surprising to me. Cause if I had to tell you Justin Timberlake's true medium, it's the live show.
Clip of "Suit & Tie"
Todd (VO): Recording artist? Yeah, he's had a solid collection of bops. [clip from In Time] Actor? I- I've seen him be good in things. [clip of The Lonely Island ft. Justin Timberlake - "Dick in a Box"] Musical sketch comedian?
Justin: It'd my d*ck in a box
Some of his finest work.
Todd: But the concert stage?
Clip from Justin Timberlake + The Tennessee Kids trailer
Justin: Are you ready!?
Todd (VO): That is where he truly belongs. You see him perform live, you will think he never had a bad show in his life.
Todd: And yet, on the biggest stage of all, he had a very bad night indeed.
Go Big And Then Go Home[]
Clip of Justin's 2018 Super Bowl halftime performance
Jimmy Fallon: This is the Pepsi that brings you the Pepsi Super Bowl halftime show!
Justin: Come on, if you know what's good
Todd (VO): In February, Justin played the goddamn Super Bowl. I imagine for him, it was a night where he could put right what once went wrong. Allegedly he asked Janet Jackson to join him, she declined. [text appears "*I'm not sure I believe this happened"]
Todd: Instead, it was just about the worst thing he could do.
Todd (VO): A horrible reminder for many of all the things he'd gotten away with.
Justin: Oh baby, hold up, stop
Todd: Uh, I saw more than one person describe it as returning to the scene of the crime.
Justin: Stop
Todd (VO): Honestly, I remember thinking it wasn't that bad. Despite the fact that he began it with his awful new song.
Todd: But this was not the majority opinion.
Clip from The Wendy Williams Show
Wendy: Justin Timberlake's halftime show.
The audience groans in disappointment
Wendy: Ugh?
Todd (VO): Even normal, [clip of Justin's halftime show] non-stan people that I knew in real life told me it sucked. [sighs] I'm not sure what it was in hindsight. It might have been that he was wearing the world's stupidest fucking outfit. How are you gonna sing "Suit & Tie" when your suit and tie is a camo blazer and a bandana?
Todd: I mean, there's your wardrobe malfunction.
Todd (VO): What the fuck is that? He was in Minneapolis, so he shouted out to Prince, which made people angry because he and Prince had once traded a couple jabs at each other. Another thing people made way too much out of honestly. [screenshot of article "Review: Justin Timberlake had nothing to say at the Super Bowl and wouldn't stop saying it"] The LA Times complained that he had nothing to say, which...
Todd: I- I'm sorry, but that's a bizarre thing to say about a halftime show.
Todd (VO): What I take from that is... Just the same problem that I have, even with this album's good tracks.
Todd: People were just kinda sick of Justin Timberlake in general.
Clip of Justin Timberlake live performance
Todd (VO): Like, you look at the credits, it's nothing but Timbaland and The Neptunes, the same people who brought him to the dance. But it all feels like it's been done. Even with the country makeover, it all sounds like stuff he's done before, it feels like he's not been pushed into anywhere new. Like we've got all the Justin Timberlake we will ever need.
Clip from 30 Rock
Kaylie Hooper (Chloë Grace Moretz): You're so old and out-of-touch, Donaghy. I might as well be looking at... Justin Timberlake.
Todd: Ok, what else we got coming up here?
Clip of Justin's iHeartRadio Music Festival performance
Todd (VO): "Higher Higher", which is about how hot his wife is.
Justin: Success is cool
And money is fine, but you're special
[in a mopey voice] Money's fine, I guess. [back to normal] Yeah, eat me. I mean, money's pretty important, it gets you supply-aye-aye-ies.
Todd: Something called "Wave".
Justin: Let's go to an island
Like we did last year, catch a vibe
Todd: Wait, what, are you at the beach? I thought you were a man of the woods?
Justin: Waves (Waves), waves (Waves)
Todd (VO): Like, his whole southern man shtick, he is at least able to say he is from Memphis, Tennessee. But that's very far away from anywhere with waves, alright?
Todd: It's like even he doesn't think he can be pulling this off. Why is he doing this?
Clip of Justin performing "Drink You Away"
A Little Help From My Friends[]
Todd (VO): Actually, why don't we roll back a bit to explain how we got here.
Justin: Bittersweet thing, could this be a dream
Justin did have one rootsy song before this, a blues-type track on the previous album called "Drink You Away".
Justin: I can't drink you away
Todd (VO): Late in that album cycle, Timberlake made a stab at getting on country radio. [clip from the 49th CMA Awards] Including a performance at the CMAs alongside a critically acclaimed but commercially under-the-radar artist named Chris Stapleton. Who would have a big breakthrough night that show and win several awards, before doing his duet with Justin.
Chris Stapleton: I can't drink you away
This is actually a two-song performance; before Timberlake's song, they will perform one of Stapleton's. Not one of the singles, but a deep cut from Stapleton's new album.
Announcer: Get to your feet Nashville for Chris Stapleton and it's Justin Timberlake!
Chris: You're as smooth as Tennessee whiskey
Todd (VO): For the next couple weeks after this, that song, "Tennessee Whiskey", [screenshot of Reuters article "Chris Stapleton tops Billboard after Country Music awards win"] would top the digital download charts and reach the top 20 on the Hot 100. [clip of Chris performing "Tennessee Whiskey"] And over the next couple years, it would become a cover band [clip from The Voice Season 21] and TV talent show staple, and would just continually grow [clip of T-Pain covering the song] in stature until the present day, where it is now the most beloved country song of the past ten years.
T-Pain: You're as sweet as strawberry wine
And it was...
Todd: ...shepherded to popularity...
Clip of Justin's CMA performance
Todd (VO): ...by Justin fucking Timberlake.
Justin: Like your love to get me high
I guess maybe Timberlake thought this was an endorsement of his own ability to do this kinda music. Which, you know, I don't know, man. Were you instrumental in this song's rise, or were you just there when it happened?
Todd: Nevertheless, he was now, like, close friends with Stapleton, so he put together a duet.
Clip of "Say Something"
Justin: Everyone knows all about my direction
Todd (VO): So here we have it, the hit. This album had an actual, honest-to-god hit. Not a huge hit, but it did get to the top 10 and it lasted a good while, it had legs, people forget that. So big was the failure of this album that it even erased his own success.
Justin and Chris: "Say something", then "Say something"
I don't wanna get caught up in the rhythm of it
You know, I remember liking it, it's a good song. I think?
Todd: Funny thing, I asked a buddy of mine to listen to this album so I could have someone to talk about it with. And he got to this song and asked me a question: Uh, is this song about Trump?
Justin and Chris: Everybody says, "Say something, say something, say something"
Todd (VO): Like, it's weird to think of Man of the Woods as a Trump-era record, but its failure is definitely inextricable with this moment in time. It came out at a time when all celebrities were being pressured to make some kinda statement.
Todd: And I wanna be clear that I am fully about celebrities keeping their thoughts to their goddamn selves if that's what they wanna do. [screenshot of article "31 Very Stupid Things Celebrities Said With a Straight Face"] Many celebrities are very stupid and you don't want to hear what they think. But also, if you're gonna shut up... Then shut up.
Justin: Caught up in the middle of it
Todd (VO): I have no interest in you whining about being pressured about it.
Justin and Chris: Sometimes, the greatest way to say something
Is to say nothing at all
No, no, that's not true. The best way to say something is to say something.
Todd: If politics is what this song is about. But here's a possibility I came up with: Is this about Britney? Or Janet?
Chris: Everyone knows all about my transgressions
Todd (VO): Like, he's hinting that he's got his side of it that he wants to reveal but that he can't or he shouldn't. Maybe. I guess we'll never know. Even though this was the hit, I didn't see anyone speculating at all about what he was hinting at here. If this was a subliminal, it stayed subliminal. No one cared what this song was about, or even noticed that it might be about something. Saying nothing at all did nothing for Justin.
Clip of Justin and Chris performing "Say Something"
Justin: Maybe I'm lookin' for somethin' I can't have
Like, to me this is very clearly Justin's song, with Stapleton's earthy masculinity borrowed for credibility. But it's Timberlake's vibe, his lyrics, his producers.
Todd: And yet, it only seemed to benefit Stapleton.
Todd (VO): In fact, since I was barely paying attention at all to country in the 2010s, this is maybe the first time I had heard of Chris Stapleton. Like, this song did not cross over to country music at all, Stapleton crossed over to pop. His elevator kept going up, and Justin's kept going down.
Todd: Anyway, more songs.
Clip of interview with Justin and...
Todd (VO): Boring Alicia Keys duet. And then something called...
Todd: ..."Hers"?
Promotional clip for Man of the Woods, as "Hers (Interlude)" plays
Jessica Biel: When I wear his shirt, it feels like, like his skin over mine.
Todd (VO): Oh, it's a spoken interlude. Ok. This is, uh, Justin Timberlake's actual wife. [image of Jessica in BoJack Horseman] Attempted actress and future hard Jeopardy question Jessica Biel. And it's about wearing her husband's shirt.
Jessica: I feel like I understand more when it's against my skin. It's an armor, like a barrier from the world.
Todd: [throws hands up] Did a high schooler write this about her boyfriend during lunch? I- I'm sorry.
Jessica: And I like that, you know? It makes me feel like a woman, [text appears "when you wear his shirt."] it makes me feel sexy, it makes me feel...
JustGirlyThings logo appears
Jessica: It makes me feel like I'm his.
Clip of Man of the Woods Behind The Album as "Flannel" plays
Todd (VO): But after this, we get another song about his clothing called "Flannel". About his flannel that he's always wearing that he was definitely known for before now. And that he'll protect you just like his trusty flannel has always kept him warm.
Justin: It will keep you warm
Clip of...
I think Adam Sandler wrote a song like this as a joke once. [clip of "Man of the Woods"] And there was one that I skipped we should circle back to because it is the final single, the title track.
"Man of the Woods"[]
Justin: I brag about you to anyone outside
Todd (VO): Um, I was not aware this was a single. By the time this video came out, Man of the Woods was already an infamous bomb. I would have gone with literally any other song as a single just because it wouldn't have the same name as the album.
Todd: Like, maybe you can trick people into thinking that era's done and we're starting over. Uh, can't do that with this one.
Justin: I brag about you to anyone outside
But I'm a man of the woods, it's my pride
Todd (VO): This was obviously a mistake. You don't wanna put out the novelty song when you're already struggling with being seen as goofy and lame.
Justin: But then your hand's talkin', fingers walkin'
The sound is this full-on jug band thing.
Clip of Mungo Jerry - "In the Summertime"
Mungo Jerry: Ch, ch-ch, uh, ch, ch-ch, uh
Clip of "Man of the Woods"
Todd (VO): The video looks like an Old Spice commercial.
Clip of an Old Spice ad
Skier: I'm a man, and I smell like a man
Back to "Man of the Woods"
He dances with his weird anti-vax wife. [sighs] I guess he felt he had to release it to show that he's a man.
Todd: Like, even he's apologetic.
Justin: I'm sorry, baby, you know I try
But I'm a man of the woods, it's my pride.
Todd (VO): I'm sorry, I tried not to, I gotta. Like, everyone was begging him not to do this whole lumberjack thing. Justin said this was the first song on the album he wrote, and it dictated the entire theme of the album. Which is amazing, cause it's just absolute garbage nonsense. Being a man of the woods has absolutely nothing to do with the lyrics, which are about fucking.
Justin: But then your hand's talkin', fingers walkin'
Down your legs, hey, there's the faucet
Someone's knocking, like they don't know
Clip from Inside Llewyn Davis
Llewyn Davis (Oscar Isaac): Hey look, I'm happy for the gig, but who- Who wrote this?
Jim (Justin): I did.
Clip of Man of the Woods Behind The Album
I can only assume he and Pharrell wrote this while drinking from [image of...] a big jug labelled "XXX'. Cause it is, like, hillbilly stupid [image of a hillbilly man] to think this dumbass novelty song is something you should base an entire record on. [clip of Justin's iHeartRadio performance] At this point, literally everyone has turned the album off. Which is a shame, cause honestly there- There's some stuff on the back-end there that I like a lot.
And Now For The Good Parts…[]
Todd: Like, there is one honestly really good song on there called "Montana".
Clips from Man of the Woods Behind The Album; the songs Todd mentions play over them
Justin: Ooh, take a light, do you like that?
Cause it likes you back
Everything is heightened
Todd: And there's more in there that are, like, genuinely good. "Breeze Off the Pond".
Justin: What we got is solid as oak
So you know it'll never blow away
Like breeze off the pond
Todd: "Living Off the Land", that's another good one if you can stomach Justin singing about being a broke mountaineer.
Justin: I'm just one man doing the best that I can
Todd (VO): The entire "R&B for the outdoors" concept actually comes alive in the final third.
Todd: I think you could argue that this album has more good songs than The 20/20 Experience, honestly. It's just that at this point, it's far too little too late.
Clip of NBC News interview with Justin
Todd (VO): And there's a touching little song on there that finishes the album that's addressed to his son. And I think Justin being a dad has to be considered the whole point of this album.
Is Justin Okay?[]
Todd: This is just armchair psychology, but I kinda wonder if he was having some kinda, like, crisis of masculinity?
Clip of "Suit & Tie"
Todd (VO): And you could already kinda see it in The 20/20 Experience and the whole Rat Pack thing he was doing. [clip of Robbie Williams live performance] Ex-boy band members love the Rat Pack. [back to "Suit & Tie"] It lets you shed your teen idol phase and show that you're a real bro's bro, even though you sing and dance for a living.
Todd: But he could pull that off.
Clip of Chris and Justin's CMA performance
Todd (VO): Hanging around Chris Stapleton did the opposite. It just made it obvious how much he wasn't that guy.
Todd: The beard, the flannel, whatever.
Clip of *NSYNC - "Bye Bye Bye"
Todd (VO): He still looks like the same kid from 2002. [clip from Punk'd] He's always gonna be the same guy I saw crying after being punk'd by Ashton Kutcher. [clip of Justin Timberlake's...] The girl parts on "Señorita" are always gonna sound closer to his actual voice than the guy parts.
Justin: The ladies go, "I don't know what I'm thinking 'bout"
Clip of Chris and Justin's CMA performance
There's nothing wrong with being a pretty boy with a high tenor voice. The actual image problem he had to fix is everyone thinks he's a backstabbing weasel, but he wouldn't figure that one out until it was too late.
Outro[]
Todd: And it's especially interesting now that we have another...
Clip of Beyoncé at the 2024 iHeartRadio Music Awards
Todd (VO): ...big-name R&B/country album to compare it to. Like, just a few months ago, Beyoncé made her country album, and... Whether or not you like that record, she more or less got away with it. [clip of Call Me Country trailer] Partly because she came in on the offensive. She had thoughts about the history and racial politics of roots music. She had a point.
Todd: Unlike Justin, who did not.
Clip of Chris and Justin's CMA performance
Todd (VO): He came in cosplaying as Nick Offerman and demanding to be taken seriously. [clip of Justin's Super Bowl performance] In the background, rumbling through all of this, was the stuff about Janet and how patently unfair it was that she took the brunt of it all, and how this mediocre white man survived. [clip of Justin's iHeartRadio performance] I think the album tanking sent the Justin anti-fandom into overdrive. I imagine it feels really good to dislike Justin Timberlake because it worked, it stopped him. [clip of "No Guidance" ft. Drake by...] I still hate Chris Brown, and that's no fuckin' fun at all cause he's still here.
Todd: If you hate Justin Timberlake though, you are victorious. You did it.
Clip of Justin Timberlake live performance
Todd (VO): But I kinda wonder if that's got the cause and effect backwards. Like, the dog keeps barking [image of...] at the mailman cause the mailman always goes away, so the dog thinks he did that. But that's not what happened, maybe no one did anything here. [clip of Justin's Super Bowl performance] In a world where no one cared about Britney or Janet, I think I would still be talking about how Justin tanked his career in 2018. It is not as terrible as its reputation.
Todd: There are some good songs on there. But it's just never really convincing.
Clip of "Say Something"
Todd (VO): And because Justin takes forever to record, he couldn't put it quickly behind him like Justin Bieber did with his flop era.
Todd: I don't hate Justin Timberlake.
Clip of Justin Timberlake - "Selfish"
Todd (VO): I was kinda rooting for this last album so that people would be normal about Justin Timberlake again. But unfortunately, it was fucking crap, so that's not happening. [clip of Post Malone ft. Morgan Wallen - "I Had Some Help"] It's funny that tons of pop stars are going country now. [clip of "Stardust" by..] Even Zayn from One Direction is trying his own Chris Stapleton inspired album. [clip of "Man of the Woods"] Obviously that's what Justin should be doing now too, and he would be if he hadn't already blown it the first time.
Todd: I actually saw Justin Timberlake a few weeks ago.
Video of the concert that Todd recorded
Todd (VO): It was a great show. But he played most of his new album, which just isn't any good. [clip of Justin's iHeartRadio performance] I think his time's over. We have just outgrown the need for Justin Timberlake. He didn't have the sauce.
Todd: And I don't know what else he could do, so my suggestion for him is to just... stop.
Justin: You can stop
Todd (VO): Just stop.
Justin: Sometimes, the greatest way to say something is to say nothing
Ending Music: Todd plays "Man of the Woods" on the piano
THE END
"Man of the Woods" is owned by RCA
This video is owned by me
THANK YOU TO THE LOYAL PATRONS!!